Here we go!

Oh I read too far and now I have to re-work my little write-up. Hopefully I can put it up tomorrow....

Lauren I'll PM you with the four words if you can confirm you've finished the book. I really wouldn't want you to know them if you hadn't.

so ill pay attention to this thread; im gonna read more, but i dont think i can reach you;anyway.. im getting sicker and my mom is almost having diabetes;
my granpa died of his diabetes.. this may sound weird but please help me praying for her;
thanks i love you all so much)
so how's the story going?

Karina - I'm so sorry you are still sick and getting sicker. I hope you start to feel better soon. Is it just a cold? Diabetes is a serious illness. My grandpa died from it too. My dad has it but so far has been relatively healthy. I will keep you and your mom in my thoughts. I'm glad you will read along in this thread. Please let us know how it's going.

Denise: Yep, I've finished the book. I wouldn't ask if I didn't, so no worries!!

Karina: aw, i hope you start to feel better. being sick is never fun. and i will keep your mom in my prayers. i hope she doesn't get it, but if she does, they can control that pretty well nowadays, so try to not worry too much. My mom has it herself.
the book is good! I hope you like it if you get to read it all.

I really need to remember to look back. This not wanting to give things away thin is hard. lol
I'll go back and comment when others post!

hey thanks so much
i'll keep on reading your posts

Amma's comment about "I wish I'd be murdered" was pretty disturbing. and saying "when you die you become perfect" WTF? Although she's somewhat correct because people do tend to remember the good things about a person, still you'd be dead! Amma's crazy I think.

I'm sad that the author keeps talking about the girls who were killed as being "trouble" or "bad" that they were "vicious", as if they deserved to be killed. I understand she's trying to show the killers motive, but still.

I thought it was freakish how "twin tumors" killed Camille's grandparents within a year of each other. They say things like that happen though.

So we still don't know much about her dad, just that he was from Kentucky.

I still really like Curry (her boss) he's like a father figure to her. Protective and teaching.

I like the way her words get hot on her when she experiences emotions. Like "punish".

I hated the way her mother treated her when she showed up at the Nashes. Then she left and cried about it. Poor Camille she's crying all the time but there's no relief from her tears.

I LOVED the part where she says "I'm here" just to remind her and comfort herself that she's alive. "I exist" "I am" I say that about book club when I feel we are particularly invisible

Her mom never said "I love you" and Camille never assumed she did. That's tragic. I can't imagine having that kind of relationship with my mother. I don't know how a person fills that void. The lack of love from a mother. It's such a vital part of human life.

OK, her mom biting the baby... that was totally twisted. Who bites a baby? Pinching a baby or scratching, eh I can maybe see that. But biting? That's just animalistic, beastial (is that a word? probably not)

Oh oh I LOVED the sentance about Adora: "she'd trail off to her room like an unfinished sentance" what great description. Beautiful writing.

Man Camille drinks a lot. I was glad to have the comment that "liquor is a layer of protection from the sharp thoughts in my head" It made me understand a bit better. Not being much of a drinker my self it's hard for me to understand someone who starts the day with a drink. But obviously Camille hurts so much she needs something to dull the pain. I have to say the liquor doesn't seem to be working much though.

It's interesting. Camille talks about hurting herself, obviously the cutting is part of that. But then when she talked about needing to mark off the days on her calendar, like a countdown. "three more days unitl I don't have to worry about life anymore." That's such an obvious suicidal way of thinking, I'm surprised she hasn't attempted to kill herself. She chooses to suffer instead. Like she's punishing herself instead of finding peace in death. I don't know if that makes sense what I'm trying to say there. I guess what I mean is that someone who already has so much pain and wants it to end conflicts with the same person who validates her pain by carving it into her skin. To me the two acts, suicide and cutting are almost opposite reactions to life. One is fighting it forcefully and the other is just giving up. Anyone have any thoughts about this?

The shopping spree, I wonder what Adora was after there. Clearly she didn't want to catch up. Maybe she was just trying to dress up the situation. But her shock and reaction to the scars. Did she forget they were there or was it her way of exposing Camille and making her feel bad about what she'd done.

The words that popped out belittle, whine, milk, hurt, bleed it's like the author's way of giving us little clues about Camille's horrible childhood.

The way the author describes her skin as if it were alive is still so chilling to me. It's wonderfully written.

Ewww I don't like Meredith Wheeler, acting like she owns John Keene. Poor guy is just an empty shell. I think John just wanted a chance to talk about his sister, you know as part of the greiving process. He also wants the killer found.

I was surprised he confessed about what his sister had done to the other little girl. I thought he'd be tight lipped about it. But again, even if she had done it intentionally she didn't deserve to be killed.

A teeny tiny glimpse of Amma getting caught don't lie to me, little girl.... evil is a foot in that house.

I thought the whole part with her old friends was utterly boring. I'm not sure how it was even relevant except I guess to show just how far removed Camille is from everyone. She can't relate to anyone on a personal level. Not that those women were worthy of that, but she doesn't fit in anywhere.

Ummm Amma's nice little joint gesture just turned out to be her curiousity, wanting to see the scars. Maybe because she has her own scars (emotional). At first I thought it was her trying to reach out, like maybe she was gonna ask for help or something or maybe there would be acknowledgement that they were similar. But no.

karina: i'll pray for her. i'm sorry because i know it seems scary and diabetes is serious. but there really is a lot you can do to control it. my father has been living with it for as long as i can remember. try not to stress yourself out too much.

denise: that was like clue number one that girl's not right in the brain. that is MAJOR attention whore status. red flags all over the place. when is the bookclub particularly invisible? oh, and the mother biting a baby was another very interesting part. pretty sick. more attention whoring. hmm..camille's hurting thing. sometimes when you're really upset about something do you ever feel like you want it to hurt? the TBS line always plays in my head if it's love make it hurt, i deserve it. idk why. but sometimes it does feel good to listen to music that you know is going to hurt. obviously not the same thing as cutting but maybe the same concept? meredith wheeler just needs to go away..insecure much?

so hmm, let me look back and see what the section was about...

"every tragedy that happens in the world happens to my mother, and this more than anything about her turns my stomach. she worries over people she's never met who have a spell of bad chance. she cries over news from around the globe."
when i first read that i guess i was naive because i thought oh how nice that she can feel for people that she doesn't even know. but it seems more like a show since she's the darling of the town. interesting that amma didn't learn this better-pretty much everyone knows the score on her.

"women love vulnerability. most women."

"to prove she isn't a lesbian. like mother, like daughter right? if she didn't fuck those boys, no one would have had anything to do with her. but she did. so she proved she wasn't a lesbian, but that she was a slut. so no one had anything to do with her. that's wind gap. we all know each other's secrets. and we all use them."
that is so freaking sad and disturbing and i hate to say that it's life everywhere. to some extent everyone has to play the game or you'll get crucified. even camille played the game to fit in just enough. i really hate that this is a truth.

[after camille asked why she decided to be nice]
"sometimes i can't. but right now, i can. when everyone's asleep and everything's quiet, it's easier."
i never really understood this one. well, i guess i thought i did at the time but in the context of the story as a whole i'm confused again. any offer of friendship that amma made to camille seriously creeped me out. any thoughts?

denise; i agree that when you die you become perfect, its especially right with the famous people mentioned in the book. i am a big fan of princess diana, i think she's beautiful and perfect and can't think of anything wrong about her, yet when she was alive i was littler and had no idea about her. i think this could also be why camille feels like she has to compete so much because Marian is dead and shes perfect and she cant compete with her moms memories of her.

i thought it was mean of her mum to show up at the Nashes too. she STILL treats her like a llttle girl.

Adora biting the baby made me think that no matter how much you know a person they always have a secret or a different side to thier personality you dont know. i think the author could be saying that anyone could have murdered those girls.

i loved that sentence about Adora too, the unfinished sentence. perfect.

i can understand that she said liquor was her protection because sometimes your thoughts just get too much, but first thing in the morning?? she's not pining for her mums love or anything, but she obviously hurts when she gets rejected or treated like a child even as an adult its got to hurt, whether you were "loved" or not.

i think her mum taking her shopping, and revealing he robvious scars was like saying, "you could be like us, you could be beautiful, you could fit in, but look what youve done to yourself, no-one will ever love you now" its mean but thats how i took it.

i cant believe Amma is only 13 and is acting the way she is. shes trying to get everything she wants and grow up too fast.

stephanie: i thought the quote about her having to prove she wasn't a lesbian was sad too. if shes not gay then she's a slut, i think its part of the human race having to classify and group things to understand or put up with them. its sad but its true.
maybe Amma wants to catch up with Cammile after so long, or maybe she admires part of her so always wants to look 'cool' in front of her, and in front of her own friends sp she has so many personalities. i don't like her i think shes quite self centred.

umm what else.
the part with Amma watching the pigs was really weird.. it feels like humans need to feel power to feel alive or something. that girl is whacked. its disgusting that those pigs can be treated that way, and Adora gets heaps of credit and respect because of all her money, but when thats how she 'earns' it-i wouldn't be respecting her. did that make sense?

ok i think thats all i have for now.
Karina i do hope you get better, steph is right there is a lot you can do to help it these days.keep us updated as to how you and your family is doing.

Denise: Yeah, Amma's comments about death were rather disturbing. Does she mean it or is it an attention thing? Very creepy. Well, I believe in Heaven, so I would see the comment "when you die, you become perfect" as being in heaven..but who knows what she means?

Yeah, I feel bad for the two girls..but I agree, I think it's just showing how others viewed them.

Aw, I love Curry! He's so sweet to her and really is like a father. She needs that.

The "I'm Here" is pretty powerful. It's cool to think about.

Yeah, BITING THE BABY?? OMG!! that part stuck with me so much from them on. I mean, why wouldn't it? But i read that and I was just in total shock. That's insane. she's got some definite issues.

I hate how people have to use drugs or alcohol or something to numb themselves from all the pain. That's definitely what Camille is doing, but it's so awful for her. She's got a lot of pain in her past and it's all coming back being home again.

Never thought of that, but I do get what you mean, and I think I'd have to agree. But I also think she cuts herself because it makes her feel better and everything, but I also think she doesn't really want to die. She just wants everything to be okay...so she's bordering on being suicidal maybe, but she's not there.

The words just interest me. I really want to know what they all mean. It does make you think about her past and why she picked the ones she did.

i think her mom remembered. how could she forget? i think it's really sadistic. I don't know what was the meaning behind it though..

Yeh, Meredith annoyed the crap out of me. She needs to back off a bit.

Stephanie: Yeah, I think Adora acts that way to get people to like her and be all 'Oh, look at Adora. She's so caring' or whatever.

I hate that it's a truth too. That's so awful about that girl. And it's so much worse in a small town like that, I'm sure, b/c you DO know everyone and their secrets and that's awful.

Yeah, I was confused about Amma. I just figured she wanted attention, which is why she acts the way she does with her parents and even with her friends and people in town. But her wanting to get close to Camille..I'm not sure why.
That line is really interesting. maybe she's being sincere..like, she can be who she wants to be or thinks she should be when it's just her and nobody is going to bug her about it or something. Idk.

Emma: i know. People always want to label people in some way. we all do it to some extent, but when it becomes insulting like that, that's really really wrong.

It made sense. It was awful to read about the pigs. and Amma is def. freaky when she was so entranced by the pigs and their suffering. it isn't right at all.

denise: I agree about the old friends part. I felt that we were seeing Camille way out of the context of the story. I felt the same way about her mom. I feel lucky that my mom is not like that.

stephanie: I agree about that girl having to prove she's a lesbian and all. That is pretty messed up. Also I think Amma meant that she acts mean in public as a front, but she is secretly a nice person. And that's why it was easier for her to be nice when no one was around.

emma: I think the author is trying to prove that anyone could have done thoses things and everyone in the town has problems.

lauren: you clarify things so well.

Some quotes that stuck out to me:

"She worries over people she's never met who have a spell of bad chance." Even though it turns out that she knew them. I know how this applies to others. when they get so into another person's tragedy and become thier own tragedy.

"People who knew things about you. It's the kind of placed that leaves a mark." I guess the environment that Camille lived in really contributed to her cutting. It is very much a pun, in a bad sort of way.

"I hope you just loved it. I hope you can stand yourself." Her mom is so mean.

"I felt sorry for them --- they seemed truly distraught --- and I certainly could sympathize with a life that didn't turned out as planned." I am not really sure what Camille's plan was besides get out of that small town.

"... I closed my eyes, wrapped my arms around myself, and wept." There is a big paragraph towards the end of Chapter Nine, it lists all the sharp objects and things that she has had
to face. The author is sort of summing up everything and give us a lot of clues.

It seems that the important thing is with her relationship with her mom and the things she is discovering about the girls through Amma.

alex: aww, thanks. I dont' think i do a lot of the time, so thanks!!

Her mom is mean. I feel like she feels better about herself and what's happened in her life by putting others down..or mainly Camille. Who knows? she's messed up though.

I think she just wanted a nice life, and she never really got that. She got out physically but that's about it.

I agree.

Your welcome.

I guess that makes sense. If you think about it Camille does live a very sad life, that has so far been uneventful. I feel sorry for her now.

Look at me being all behind and stuff...(I basically just repeated)


Amma still bothers me. I also hate the "I wish I was murdered comment". Eh, she's asking for more than she needs at the age she's at. It's kind of hard to believe she's only 13 sometimes. And the pig thing too- I don't know, but Amma seems to need a tad bit more parental hovering.

Same with Andora. She bothers me too. Like biting the baby so it would cry and all. And how she acts like certain things never happened when I'm sure she probably remembers them. And the way she tries to warp everyone's way of thinking to what she says she remembers.

Oh, the dress shopping. I don't know, but I think it would be almost impossible for me to do that to someone, knowing that the dresses weren't the right type and then forcing her to wear them anyway. And then continuing to insist on seeing the dresses after Camille said no. I don't know. It just seems so wrong.

Oh, all the words interest me too. Maybe I went through and counted them and got a total of 61. But I really want to know why each one and the relevance. How they feel hot during different situations definitely adds to everything.

Karina: Oh, feel better! And I'll pray for your mom too.

Deinse: Oh, I still want to know what four words you read too.

Alex: yeah, I really felt sorry for Camille. i don't envy her life in the slightest.

Lynn: I know! Amma is so creepy with her comments and the pigs. It's really easy to forget her age sometime. I'll be reading and then I'll go 'wait, omg! she's only 13!!' it's insane.

Oh, the dress thing was awful. Her mom is messed up. I like what you said about her warping people's thoughts and stuff. She does do that. It's her way or no way really.